Dana of Principled Discovery wrote a piece titled: The death of local control in Nebraska
What do you think? Should LB 1157 pass and become the law here in the state of Nebraska?
Do you think all students should be tested the same?
I would love to know what you think on this issue whether you live in Nebraska OR not. I would also like to hear from you if you home school your kids OR not.
Please leave a comment here and then zip over to Dana’s blog and let her know what you think too!
I think the only reason to have every child tested the same is if we want them all educated exactly the same.
The real problem isn’t with that, though, really. It has to do with what testing does to instruction. Testing and instruction are inextricably linked, with good instruction leading to good testing and vice versa. Since the test that is adopted will be a high stakes test, measuring the effectiveness of teachers and districts, it will drive instruction.
Since it is a standardized test, instruction will begin to look like it did where I taught in TX under then governor Bush: test prep. All day every day.
Our current system allows for a variety of testing measures which leads to a variety of instruction, the best possible scenario.
The testing industry itself says that these standardized tests should never be used to make life altering decisions for students, nor to punish teachers and school districts. They should be used as one measure among many.
The proper way to go about this would be to leave the STARS system in tact and develop a test as one independent measure. Meaning that everyone would take it, but it wouldn’t really effect anyone directly. If teacher A passes all her students and all but one of her students does well on the test, you should be able to assume that in that one case the teacher knows better than the test.
If on the other hand, teacher B passes all her students and they all fail the test, then there is reason to investigate further and give that teacher some additional help. These tests are supposed to be used to gain some information, but not necessarily change funding schemes and determine grade placement.
Hi Dana! I don’t know as much about these type of tests as you do. I will say that if the kids are all be educated properly whether they are home schooled or not then it won’t really matter because all the kids will do well. Am I missing something here?
Yes, I think you are. : ) The essential problem is that the testing tends to drive instruction. If it is a good test, that isn’t a problem. But with these statewide standardized tests, instruction is reduced to test prep for simple lower level tasks that can be tested by multiple choice. That is the problem that has been found over and over in multiple studies.
Homeschooling is a little different. There are a lot of different methodologies out there, many of which focus on starting later and not until the child shows certain readiness signs. There has been a bit of research into this, and it has repeatedly shown that kids who start later catch up quickly, demonstrate more leadership skills and are less likely to be identified with learning disabilities.
Many children who struggle in school do so not because they are learning disabled, but because they are developing at a different pace. In school, however, they tend to learn that they are slow, dumb, etc., and that school is dumb, boring and stupid. They give up before they are developmentally ready for the tasks they are asked to perform.
So by high school, yes. If instructed well, the results of the testing should be comparable. And homeschoolers do tend to outperform public schooled students on the ACT and SAT even without the years of test prep provided by the school system. But in third grade, that may not be the case.
Well — when the child is ready to take the test then they can take it, right?
Also — thank you for taking the time to write out an explanation for all of this that I can understand. I really appreciate that. :)
For the school system, the state is increasing the number of times the test is to be taken, regardless of whether the child is ready. If it were merely to provide information, I’d have no objections. But since these are high stakes tests and these have been proven to be detrimental to education, I have concerns.
The other legislation affecting homeschoolers is more strict. Starting in the first grade, kids are tested every year and removed if they don’t show adequate progress according to the state. That will be a problem for those who have chosen to go slower, which should be an option especially since research indicates that is better in the long run.
All in all, I think all of these decisions are better off made at the local level. We have enough testing for kids as it is. We don’t need more and it won’t tell us anything we don’t already know.
Nebraska schools have the highest graduation rate in the nation according to one thing I just read and our students do well on independent measures. I think our system is part of that and there is no reason to be looking for changes like this unless the local district has shown itself incapable of providing adequate instruction.
So basically the kids have to pass the test in order to move to the next grade. Is that right?
If homeschoolers that are at a 1st grade level are ready then why shouldn’t they take the test along with the public school kids?
Also, if I remember correctly isn’t it up to the parents to decide when their children can start school?
Some parents put their kids in school at age 4, 5, or even 6. I would imagine each parent knows what their kids are capable of.
The other thing I’m thinking of is won’t the material that will be on the tests be accessible so that everybody in school whether public, private, or homeschool will have a chance to prepare?
Since homeschooled children tend to do better on these things according to the studies that you have found then maybe you guys really don’t have anything to worry about, ya know?
I don’t know.. am I missing something more?
[...] Herald caught my attention. One is about the controversial topic of testing all students equally, we discussed that this week, and the other deals with the stadium issue for the College World [...]
I think that in order for you to understand why we don’t want our children tested by the government you need to understand why we took our children out of the public schools in the first place. We are tired of them not taking the education of our children seriously. I personally am tired of the “No child left behind,” rhetoric when its obvious that children in the public schools are left behind every day. We, as homeschoolers want the freedom to teach what we want when we want to. When we decided to homeschool it wasn’t just a spur of the moment decision to have our children on permanent vacation. It was a life altering decision that is extremely difficult to continue especially with the current prices of food and what not. Yes, I realize many people would say “Well you chose that.” and you know what I would agree, but as I will accept my consequences whatever that may be, I have to say the same to you who say “Well my child has to take a standardized test and he or she is in public school.” Yes he or she does, but that is your consequence and your choice not ours. So to each his or her own.
While many people may not agree with what I say, we can agree that we have the right to disagree but since I had my children and I know my children then I believe I know whats best for them. Would I say that about all mothers? No, but usually those types of mothers wouldn’t have the time or the inclination to have their children with them all day every day. They wouldn’t want the responsiblity and the cost of homeschooling.
In my district (Ellicott District in Colorado) I checked out the results for the csap (Colorado’s Standardized Test). The 3rd graders results were as follows: 2007 and 2005 there were 0 advanced, 2006 had 1 advanced, and 2004 had 5 advanced students. Proficiency percentages for all four years ranged between 44% and 57%. Partially proficient for the abover years ranged from a 22% to a 31% and unsatisfactory results ranged from 16% to 28%.
Seriously and these are the people who the government funds to teach children. The government should be looking to their own schools and then we wouldn’t have to homeschool. I have to admit that I also have another reason for homeschooling. Evolution is not what I want my child believing in, but for their sake I teach the facts of both evolution and creation and give them the choice that the public schools wouldn’t.
I don’t believe that the government is any position to demand that our homeschooled children take a test that they can’t even get their public schooled children to pass proficiently. My children, by the way would be at least in the proficient range, because I care about what they do and I teach them in a way that they enjoy learning.
Just my thoughts. Sorry to take up so much time and room.
I guess I just don’t understand why homeschooling Mom’s wouldn’t want their children to take tests that kids in public school are being made to take. What’s the problem? Your child is going to outscore the public school kids anyway, right?
I think this is similar to the chicken before the egg.
If all kids are tested the same and it’s known beforehand then there’s no excuse for lame education.
And, like Angela, I’m not well versed on this topic, but it would seem to me that if homeschooling is the better education then the home schooled would breeze right through standardized tests. But that’s from my perspective and I’m kinda dumb to this topic
I guess I would have to be a home schooling Mom in order to relate to what the home schooling Moms have been telling me.
This is what keeps crossing my mind:
I guess I just don’t understand why homeschooling Mom’s wouldn’t want their children to take tests that kids in public school are being made to take. What’s the problem? Your child is going to outscore the public school kids anyway, right?
I am trying to understand your confusion. I guess the only thing I can say to try and alleviate the communication gap is this: We aren’t interested in what everyone thinks is the better school system. We aren’t interested in whose scoring higher or whose “winning.” That isn’t the problem. The problem is that we are pulling our children out of a government critiqued environment, classes, learning materials, and tests.
Many homeschoolers, ourselves included, have tests that we give our children once a year. In fact, in Colorado, where I am, it is a law that the children be tested every other year starting in the 3rd grade. So I am not saying that we won’t conform to the law. What I am saying is that it shouldn’t be required for a parent to have to prove anything unless there is some reason for concern.
For the record, homeschooling may not be better for all people. I have never said that homeschooling is the best way to school all children. If you have a good district and you’re happy with them, then you have chosen the best thing for your child, but my district is not good. I, personally believe that any school governed by the government is heading for problems, but I have heard some parents go on and on about how wonderful their childrens’ schools are so there must be some good ones out there.
Again, we don’t care if our kids score higher or lower. What we care about is that we don’t feel that the state or government should be able to dictate that we prove to them that our children are learning. We pulled our children out of their schools because, as far as we were concerned, they were incapable of making the distinction between children who were learning and children who were just sitting bored in their classrooms.
I hope that helps.
There is always a reason for concern. While you are probably taking excellent care of your children, there are parents out there that are not doing right by their children and do not want the proper authorities finding out.
I don’t see anything wrong with children being made to take tests to see where they are at for their age AND to make sure that the parents are really teaching their kids what they say they are teaching them.
A defiant position is not one that is really going to convince me.
A defiant position is not one that is really going to convince me.
Hello!
We were reading about the STARS program in Nebraska for one of my grad school classes in Colorado, and our teacher informed us of this radical change that recently happened. From what I’ve read, the STARS program seems very different from the CSAP we have here, and it seems as though it works a lot better.
I’m sorry to see such a creative, effective program change into something that doesn’t really work in most of the other states that use it.