11 Comment(s)

1. Patrick | Jul 15, 2008 | Reply

   A president should listen to their military advisers, not making decisions entirely by themselves. That is a recipe for disaster (look at Adolf Hitler for a good example, or G.W. Bush and some of his decisions).

   Obama is not perfect. Neither is McCain. McCain does have military experience, but he has not led large forces. He has never made command decisions for hundreds of thousands of military personnel. While he isn’t wet behind the ears like Obama, McCain doesn’t have the experience of a commander in chief either. I respect him deeply for what he has done for our country. I can’t even fathom his experiences. General Wesley Clark himself said:

   “I certainly honor [McCain's] service as a prisoner of war, but he hasn’t held executive responsibility. That large squadron in the navy that he commanded–it wasn’t a wartime squadron. He hasn’t been in there and ordered the bombs to fall.”

   Even if Clark is an Obama supporter, he still makes a valid point. While McCain obviously has the most experience out of the two candidates, it still doesn’t mean he is the penultimate master of military matters.

   There are nations around the world that do want America to fall. Great. That isn’t new. Do I blame them? Not really, even if I don’t like it. We helped mastermind the downfall of Iran’s leader in 1953, overthrowing their democratically elected leader and surplanting one of our choosing to help with oil profits. Iran later turned on them in the 1978 revolution. Look at Chile, when the CIA backed a coup ousting Salvador Allende, who was democratically elected. Yes, he was communist, which isn’t that great. But we helped put in power a terrible dictator (Pinochet) who murdered thousands of people. These are only a few things I could mention.

   America is the greatest nation in the world. I stand by that and I believe that. But we do have blood on our hands. We are not alone, either.

   Do I like other nations have nuclear weapons? Not really, but since we have them (and are the only nation to have used them, though for arguably a good reason) I see no reason why responsible nations can’t have them. China has nuclear weapons, including some that can reach the US. Russia has thousands, many still aimed at us. We really can’t do anything about that. It’s just a terrible fact we have to deal with.

   We can’t dwell on terrorism. All we can do is be vigilant and maintain secure borders. However, if, and probably when, an act of terrorism occurs in the US, we’ll just have to deal. I am not worried about it though. You can’t really do anything about it. So just don’t worry about it. Don’t let it effect your daily life. Frankly, I fear our government more than terrorism.

   Iran having nuclear weapons is not a good thing, but if it means war with them we lose. If we go to war with Iran, we’ll lose. Even if we defeat them militarily (which would happen) they will have won. Oil will skyrocket to insane numbers. Gasoline and diesel fuel will become too pricey for people to afford. Trucking will become near impossible, and we will face a crisis back in the USA. Even G.W. Bush see that. It’s probably the only reason we haven’t already attacked. Iran also won’t roll over and die like Iraq. There will be casualties. They see how we are still losing people in Iraq, and it will be worse this time. Our military is too stretched as it is, and that will cause it to break. Even if Iran says they do not want to speak with us, they still possibly would. It’s our only viable option given the terrible alternative. It worked with North Korea, who is dismantling their nuclear program.

   I am not perfect in my ideas. This is just what I think will happen, and what I have seen happen. Obama is a rookie in the ultimate sense when it comes to military matters. But if he listens to experienced military personnel, I think that is a good thing for a leader. McCain is a respectable man. I commend him for what he has sacrificed. But he isn’t perfect either.

   I hope that my comment starts a healthy, reasonable, and rational discussion. Let us be respectful of each other.

   However, the song Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell in the background of the video was so sappy it made me want to die.

2. angela | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   There is no way I would ever compare Bush to Hitler.

   As for Obama not being perfect OR McCain for that matter.. nobody is perfect.

   What are you talking about? McCain has military experience. He was in the military. That’s not experience enough? Tell me, has Obama served in the military?

   These two politicians are running for the highest official position in the land: The President of the United States. Usually people that have never been The President don’t have that Commander In Chief Experience. And if you were referring to a Commander in the military.. I don’t think it’s necessary to have been an officer in the military in order to have an understanding of how the military works.

   If you think it’s ok for other countries to want us dead then why don’t you find another country to live in? You say that America is the Greatest Nation in the World and in the same response you say that you don’t blame those other countries for wanting us dead. Don’t you think you are contradicting yourself?

   Nobody was dwelling on terrorism when September 11th happened and believe it or not.. terrorism was going on long before then! So yeah.. we do need to dwell on terrorism and figure out how to get our borders secured.

3. Patrick | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   I do not mean to sound offensive, but I don’t think you understood many parts about my post.

   Where did I say McCain has no military experience? I stated many times that I respected his military record and I also said he has worlds more military experience than Obama. I also said that McCain does not have experience commanding large numbers of troops. Neither does Obama. Does McCain understand the way to military works better than Obama? I think so, and I stated that in my last post. But does that necessarily mean Obama can’t make sound military decisions? No. Neither has experience commanding the military. I said that it is important for the president to listen to his military advisers. Both men can and should do that. Just because McCain has military experience does not mean Obama cannot make sounds military decisions.

   I stand by my statement that America is the greatest country on earth and still can be hated by people around the world. That is not contradictory at all. We have blood on our hands and have made bad decisions. But we have made many, many good ones that show we are still great. Americans give more to help developing nations and people in trouble than any other nation. We are a good people. We provide freedom of religion, something many nations do not. I could name tons more reasons why we are the greatest. We have freedom, and we want that for others. How is that not great?

   However, nations around the world have reasons why they hate us. Many are VERY legitimate. Iran is the perfect example. Read up on it. We (the government) screwed the Iranian people over badly in the Islamic Revolution as well as earlier in the 20th century. They have a legitimate reason to distrust and hate America for that. Do I like that? No, but it’s the truth. I understand where they come from and why they hate us.

   I could list many nations that have a reason to hate us. Does that mean we are not the greatest nation? No. We make mistakes, but those mistakes can sow seeds of hatred. I think that America is better than those mistakes we have made, but it doesn’t make those bad decisions less terrible to those people they effected.

   I did not say that G.W. Bush was Hitler. I said each made bad decisions. I could make some comparisons, though obviously Bush pales when it compares to the crimes against humanity committed by that madman.

   I said we can’t let terrorism effect our lives. That is what the terrorists want. I also said we need to secure our borders and maintain security. I said earlier we had to be vigilant. Every American knows that. I just said we can’t let it impede our daily lives. I am not worried about it at all. You can’t let fear rule your life.

4. angela | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   LOL Funny but I was thinking that it is you that doesn’t get my posts.

   McCain has military experience.. he served in the military and understand how the military works. Obama, has he served in the Military? Obama does not have an understanding for the military OR how it works.

   You sounded as if you approve the the people that want all of us Dead. I don’t think you understand what goes on in those training camps in those third world countries.

   I wouldn’t even go so far as to put Bush and Hitler in the same sentence unless it was to respond to something you wrote as I am doing right now.

   No, we can’t let terrorism stop us from living our lives but at the same time we can’t just sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn’t exist. We have to be diligent and learn from what has happened around the world.

   You need to read up on the time line of Terrorism. I have the link in my sidebar in the political section.

5. Patrick | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   I am trying to be as civil as possible. I do read and understand all your posts.

   I said earlier that Obama does not have military experience. I also said that he has the possibility to make very sound military decisions if he listens to his military advisers. Who else would know the military and how to make decisions regarding it than them? McCain will need to do the same, even though he understands how the military works better than Obama.

   I have already heard of most, if not all, of the acts listed in Timeline of Terrorism. I know the history of it, and I find it strange they only went back to 1960. The timeline has a flaw in that it doesn’t include the reasons behind the attacks, however bad the reasoning is. I also find a major problem that it includes terrorist activities in post-invasion Iraq. If it includes attacks against defense contractors, why not include those against our troops? None of those attacks would have happened had G.W. Bush ever made the worst decision in his presidency to attack Iraq. By doing so we only increased terrorist attacks worldwide.

   I am very offended that you think I approve of those attacks. I never said I approved of them. I said I understand why they feel that attacking back against their perceived injustices. I do not agree with them. Did you hear of the recent airstrike in Afghanistan on July 6th that killed over 40 innocent civilians, most of them women and children? That was a mistake. But I bet that many of those people will grow up hating America, or for the rest of their lives hate America. We ruined their lives, even by accident. So you know what? I can understand that they hate us. I bet that mistaken bombing and many mistakes like that will breed hatred and cause many more people to become terrorists. Do I support or like them becoming terrorists? NO! I just see why they would hate us. What can we do to bring back their lost loved ones? Nothing. You could say the same thing for countries we invade or help to cause coups which overthrow a democratically elected government. It breeds hatred.

   I did not want Saddam Hussein in power. He and his administration were evil and corrupt. The caused the deaths of thousands of Iraqis. But we didn’t invade because of that, did we? No, it was the lies we heard about WMDs and links to Al Qaeda, both which turned out to be non-existent in Iraq. The current administration blames it on bad intelligence. That may be true, though I have doubts. But they did not think about this important decision NEARLY as hard as they should have. But is Iraq better off since we invaded? Are 4100+ American soldiers who gave their lives and tens of thousands wounded worth the life of Saddam or Uday or Qusay? I have heard that around one million Iraqis are dead. They would probably not be dead had we not invaded. We did not cause all of those deaths. Many to most are caused by other Iraqi people. But would there be major sectarian fighting without the invasion? I can understand why many Iraqis hate us. Isn’t that obvious? While we may be bringing democracy, which even I know is a good thing, who are we to say the cost is worth it?

   Neither of understands what is going on in terrorist camps. Each person there would have a story to tell, whether they need money, hate the US for no reason, a loved one was killed by the US, whether their religious leader told them to do it, or just because they wanted to. They are probably told lies about the US. Of course that is a bad thing, and I would never ever support that. But I think that in most cases where we are told they hate us because of our freedom is an outright lie.

   I do not like how many Republicans say that liberal people who question their government are not patriotic and do not love their country. That is a falsehood. A patriot is a free-thinker (whichever way they lean, conservative or liberal), not a boot-licker.

6. angela | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   You are trying to be as civil as possible? Are you trying to say that I’m not being civil? Why do you think I’m not being civil? Is it because I don’t agree with everything that you are writing? Why is it when people don’t agree there has to be accusations of hostility? I’m not mad. I just don’t agree with some of the things that you are writing. Am I not allowed to object OR question what others write on my blog? You can object and point out things to me but I can’t do the same? Doesn’t that make you a bit of a hypocrite?

   I already know that Obama doesn’t have any military experience. McCain does have experience working with the military. McCain actually served our country while on duty before he became a politician. All of the politicians should have a listen to our military advisers and especially the President of the United States.

   The time line of terrorism goes all the WAY back to long before we went into Iraq with the 1st invastion under Bush senior. So I have no idea what you are talking about. Obviously you have never lived in the military world having to avoid military hang outs so as to avoid club bombings like I have. Again, I don’t agree with your assessment of President Bush. I believe we made the right decision to fight in Iraq.

   No, I don’t see why they would hate us if they would stop to look at the big picture. If they were reasonable people they would understand what is going on in the world. War or not when families lose loved ones it hurts. So no.. I do not understand your justification for hatred of our country.

   Then in the same post you say that you did not want Saddam in power. Apparently you were on the same page with the United Nations who didn’t have the balls to enforce rules that the United Nations as a whole voted on.

   It is crystal clear that you have absolutely no idea who and what the terrorists are and why they are doing what they are doing.

   I don’t believe you even know what you are talking about. That last line of yours of proof of that:

   “I do not like how many Republicans say that liberal people who question their government are not patriotic and do not love their country. That is a falsehood. A patriot is a free-thinker (whichever way they lean, conservative or liberal), not a boot-licker.”

7. Patrick | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   You were being very civil. I didn’t mean to sound like you were not. I was referring only to myself.

   However, it looks like we are just going to have to disagree on just about everything. I don’t think you know anything about terrorism, either. Also, imitating your last line, I also don’t think you know what you are talking about.

   I could make a long post like my previous ones giving rebuttals to your ideas and others, but it really wouldn’t matter. Arguing on the the internet never works anyway. I tried to put my point out there and you just went and accused me of being ignorant and unpatriotic. Regarding my last line, I do think that our nation’s founders would be appalled at people who blindly follow the government and its decisions. That is not patriotic.

8. angela | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   I know enough about terrorism to know that you can’t ignore it and you can’t sweep it under the rug and pretend it’s not there.

   It’s ok to put your point out there and to have back and forth discussions but when you see that I’m not going to agree with you and I in turn share where I am coming from.. there is no reason to get irate.

   If you react this way to everybody that you get into a discussion with you will make yourself miserable.

9. Patrick | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

   I don’t understand why you think that I tried to say you couldn’t reply to me. All my posts ever contained were my responses to your points and questions. You said, “You can object and point out things to me but I can’t do the same? Doesn’t that make you a bit of a hypocrite?” When did I stop you from saying anything? I don’t get it. Only when you made statements about me preventing you from speaking your mind did I get irate at all. All I ever tried to do was speak my mind and try to back it up. You did the same, and I responded. I speak very bluntly in these posts. If that is seen as hostile I apologize, even though I am just trying to have a conversation.

   I never said to ignore terrorism. I said that I do not let it effect my daily life. I don’t let it worry me. That is all I have ever said. I also agreed with you that we need to be vigilant. I fear my government more than terrorism because of the actions of the Bush administration.

   I just wanted to provide a liberal opinion. I’m not always right, though I try to provide evidence to back me up. People will disagree with me, and I’ll just try to respond if everyone is rational, including me.

   I’m just trying to spur some debate here…

10. angela | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

    Well I do not fear my government under the Bush administration. Sure we need to go about our daily routine but we can’t pretend that people aren’t be tortured and beheaded with knives in other parts of the world. Do we just go about our daily business and ignore what is going on everywhere else?

    Why do you have to put a label on your opinion? Do you want your thoughts and opinions to go down in history as being liberal in nature? Is that what defines you?

11. Patrick | Jul 16, 2008 | Reply

    Well, I did take that same exam that you took, and it did label me a liberal…

    I only put the word there because that is what I have been called on this blog. What is wrong with being liberal? If history labeled me liberal, I can’t really change that. I usually do not use that term, I usually just try to say my opinion. I would say that a lot of people here are conservative. I have mostly opinions that would be labeled “liberal,” but I also have some that could be labeled “conservative.” But being liberal does not define me. Why does it matter? Nothing really defines me. I am just who I am.

    Believe me, I know terrible things are going on right now as we speak. Worse things than I could possibly even imagine. I just really can’t do much about the vast majority of it. Dwelling on it doesn’t improve me life, though. We can’t ignore it. I was just saying we can’t let those negative things rule our whole lives. Doing so would just drive me insane.

    I do fear the Bush administration, though. They basically have used the Constitution for toilet paper. I could launch into a detailed tirade, but we have a difference of opinion, so I’ll just let it be.

    But there is nothing wrong with being of a liberal mind. There is nothing wrong with being of a conservative mind, either. They’re just terms. Everyone just has to be tolerant and rational in their actions. It’s all a difference of opinion.

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