Hatred from the Pulpit is Wrong
Posted by angela on 06/5/08 in Domestic Ramblings
I have a problem with all the hatred going on in this election; I would like to ask you all a question.
What is the difference in a minister spewing hatred of the whites from the pulpit, or the KKK in front of a burning cross? It is all evil and those teaching such hatred should not be applauded especially in our churches where our children are being brainwashed.
Slavery was well over 100 years ago; lets make our world a better place.
Some of my grandparents came from Ireland, and other were Cherokee they also suffered hardships but I never heard them talking with such hatred.
How can our country ever heal if we do not learn to forgive our past?
I agree with Gayla on this one.
I’m shocked that people going to church to worship God would subscribe to any preacher teaching to hate OR mock in the way that some churches do.
As somebody who’s blog was watched by a white supremacist group here in Omaha it was just a tad bit frustrating to think that they expected me to hate right along-side with them just because I was white.
I don’t know why people do not forgive more these days.
Even if you can’t have a personal relationship with the people that hate you OR your ideas, you can still pray for them and forgive them.
The other thing is maybe large quantities of groups can’t forgive the past because they were brought up OR brain washed to hate. That is certainly something else we can pray about and I guess no matter how hard it is to do sometimes.. we can set the example.
I know there are times when I feel as though I have done all I can do short of washing the feet of my enemies. Most people know that what they are doing is wrong and they may not ever come out of that type of sickness.
All we can do is continue acknowledge that hate, recognize it and admit to it instead of sweeping it under the rug, and pray over it.
I know if it had been my pastor that had spoke like the ones at Obama’s church for so many years.. I would have never let it get to 20-something years of knowing these people hate the way that they do.
I would get up and take my family out of there and find a church that is truly bible-based.
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Tracy | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
“What is the difference in a minister spewing hatred of the whites from the pulpit, or the KKK in front of a burning cross?”
Nothing. It’s exactly the same.
“I’m shocked that people going to church to worship God would subscribe to any preacher teaching to hate OR mock in the way that some churches do.”
This is an interesting thing to ponder. Sadly, I don’t think they ARE going to church to worship God. I think church’s like Wright’s and many others or more like social clubs. The only difference is that they attach it to religion. This can be either an organizational problem stemming from it’s leadership, and it can be an individual thing as well. With Wright’s church, it’s organizational. I truly believe the whole CHURCH is ORGANIZED for a social/political purpose with religion only being introduced as as excuse– to use it to justify themselves, claim pious intentions and be classified as a tax-exempt organization.
Too many people (of all faiths) do the same thing on a personal level. Church isn’t really about worshiping and coming to know God, but more of a social club for them. Maybe their families have been going to that same church for years, their friends are there, the church has playgroups, provides daycare services, has midweek activities for the teenagers, etc.
Fellowship is CERTAINLY an important part of attending church services. It’s helpful in one’s journey toward heaven to have friends who share our beliefs, to help buoy each other up. We learn from each other, support and encourage each other in our walk with God.
But, what is the MAIN purpose of church?
To help us become more Christ-like. It’s supposed to CHANGE us. Obviously, this isn’t something that happens in a flash. It’s a journey that takes our entire lifetime. We improve over time as our faith increases, as we mature in the gospel and understand the Lord’s teachings more fully.
BUT there should be SIGNIFICANT changes that ARE noticeable. When someone changes on the inside, it shows on the outside in their behavior. We exercise more self-control, we’re more patient, more kind, more forgiving, more honest, more compassionate, more respectful, more humble, more introspective, more honest with ourselves about our own faults, more willing to WORK on those faults and improve them, we take more responsiblity for ourselves and our choices, we blame others less, we show more faith and trust in God. That doesnt’ mean that we’re perfect or course. We continue to make mistakes, we still lose our patience now and then, we still might curse under our breath at someone who cuts us off on the road– the point is, that over the course of our life, we GROW. We IMPROVE. We lose our patience LESS. We control our tongues MORE, etc.
The purpose of the FELLOWSHIP is to AIDE in that. We help and encourage OTHERS in their “change” and they help US.
But for too many people, church is just a social club that allows them to be able to say (more so to themselves, than to anyone else)
See? I go to church. I’m a good person.
Wright’s church, and others like it, are just a socio-political organization that uses religion when it suits them. Not that they don’t believe in God. I’m sure they do.
–But their “faith” is more directed at changing the world to suit their socio-political agenda INSTEAD of changing the world by changing THEMSELVES and trying to become more Christ-like as individuals and as a congregation.
– It’s more about “what president, what group of people, what political party, what race, what socio-economic status, can I blame for my situation in life” instead of “what responsibility do I hold for my situation in life and how can following the Lord’s commandments IMPROVE my situation and bring me closer to Him”?
–It’s more about “black liberation theology” instead of “Jesus Christ” theology.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is about changing US and our personal lives through a relationship with HIM. THEN as we take our improved (and still improving) selves out into the world we influence and help to CHANGE the WORLD.
With church’s like Wright’s they have it all backwards– they’re waiting for the WORLD to change (or their community, their local, state or federal government to change) and they think that THAT is what’s going to bring change to THEM and it make life better for them.
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
Does Wright, Phlegler, or any of their followers appear to have any “rest” in their souls? Continually angry, continually shouting, continually blaming and cursing others, continually seeming to be in a state of chaos??
Matthew 7:15-17, 20-23
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (don’t Wright and Phleglerand their types seem to be “ravening” inside?)
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit….
… 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
nunoftheabove | Jun 7, 2008 | Reply
Some people go to church for spiritual renewal; some go to church for the symbolism of faith. I don’t know the the true nature of Barack Obama’s beliefs in God, but my beliefs do not include a God that sanctions hate for others, no matter their color, sex, or past transgressions.
ptg | Jun 7, 2008 | Reply
Hatred isn’t always evil. The Old Testament is full of hatred. The 10 Commandments don’t proscribe hate. Even God is sometimes wrathful and often expects the same of his creations.
Jesus changed things with the new covenant, even so, some Christians are taught to hate sin but not the sinner. In my belief, Its OK to hate the sinner when he can’t be separated from his sin.
Tracy | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
“Hatred isn’t always evil. The Old Testament is full of hatred.”
Not sure I get your post ptg.
The Old Testament is also full of whoredoms and idolatry– that doesn’t make those things okay. Those “sins” were included in the OT because the writings in the OT (and NT) are essentially the journals of the prophets recording the history of their people, both religiously and historically.
“The 10 Commandments don’t proscribe hate.”
They also don’t proscribe child molestation or shooting up with heroine, but I think we’d all agree that these are sins. Something doesn’t have to be prohibited in the 10 commandments in order for it to be a sin.
Jesus changed things with the new covenant
That’s right– which is why I’m not sure I get your post. You seem to be saying that hating people is okay. Yes, God becomes wrathful with His children when they disobey– but anger and hatred are two totally different things. God doesn’t hate his children, just because they sin. Rather He loves them and hopes they will use their free will to come BACK to Him.
Tracy | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
ooops– hit enter too soon–
As you stated PTG, Christ changed the law when he came.
One of the things He changed was this:
“Ye have heard that it has been said, ‘Thou shall love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.’ But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.”
Sounds like there’s never a reason to hate someone.
ptg | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
I never said there was a good reason for having hatred in one’s mind. I don’t think I even implied that it was ever reasonable nor that it wasn’t some sort of sin or another. What I said was,”Hatred isn’t always evil.”
Evil is not the same thing as sinfulness. All Christians are sinners. Not all of them are evil.
ptg | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
Addendum: Child molesting is evil, being a heroin addict is not. I’m just speculating here, but I figure that unrepentant child molesters invariably go to hell. Do addicts that never quit necessarily go to hell?
Tracy | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
Okay, so I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. It sounded like you meant that it’s okay to hate someone if they won’t seperate themselves from sin.
I understand the difference between the “kind” of evil that would cause someone to molest children vs. doing drugs– there IS a difference. But sin is sin and ALL sin, regardless of severity keep you out of heaven. UNLESS you repent and have a change of heart.
The scumbag who molests children isn’t going to be in God’s Kingdom, but neither is a liar or a petty thief.
Rev. 12:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Matt. 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; <but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
I imagine our defintions of hell are different.
I don’t believe that people who don’t believe in God, or those who DO believe in God but don’t repent are going to “hell” as in — burning fire pits and volcanoes buried deep inside the earth. I believe hell is merely being seperated from God. There will be those who are allowed to enter his kingdom, and those who won’t. Those who won’t will be in a state of hell, because they will have a perfect recollection of their lives and won’t be able to be with God.
So really, it doesn’t matter what sin we commit. Sin is sin, even though it does have it’s “degrees” of “evil-ness”. So if we’re “unclean” because we lie or because we hurt children, either one will keep us out of God presence unless we repent.
I think the difference in “Degree” of sin is more a matter of how much more difficult it is to reach true repentence. Part of true repentence is reconciliation and restitution. A thief can return what he’s stolen, and show true remorse by giving even MORE than what he took, etc.
But how does someone who abused children make up for that? That’s a much harder thing to make restitution for.
ptg | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
Blessed are the splitters of hairs, for they shall have plenty to talk about.
Seriously, (or not, as you please) I wasn’t trying to preach. I was just sayin’…
Everything I think about the kingdom I got from the parables of Jesus. For me, the rest is just scholarship, and I’ve had plenty of scriptural scholarship.
Fun & Easy Bible Quiz: Which passages of the Bible, (both Old and New Testaments) were actually written by God?
Texas Truth | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
“What is the difference in a minister spewing hatred of the whites from the pulpit, or the KKK in front of a burning cross?”
Nothing. It’s exactly the same.
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I agree. They think because they have endured hardship in the past, they are entitled to a pass. I THINK NOT!!!
Patrick | Jun 9, 2008 | Reply
Not every black person thinks that they deserve a pass. My uncle, who is black, has a very successful life as a doctor in a pharmacy. Not all black people think they are entitled to a pass. Many followers of the Black Liberation Theology think they are entitled. Is that a good thing? No. However, I feel that in SOME cases, not most, help may be required for minorities. Does this apply to everyone or everything? No. But in some cases, however rare they are, racism and intolerance put blacks and other minorities at a disadvantage. The same thing can happen to white people in some circumstances. Racism on all sides is a bad thing.
Hatred spoken from a pulpit is another reason why I lost my faith in god. While that is not a reflection on god, it is a reflection on man and how people manipulate god and god’s message to their own means. Religion in most cases can be a good thing. It is the few institutions or groups that use religion as a way to invoke hatred (not just Wright’s church, but others such as Hagee’s or Ray Comfort’s group)that give religion a bad image for some people (me included).
Tracy | Jun 9, 2008 | Reply
Agreed Patrick, though I don’t think that TexasTruth was speaking of ALL black people. I think it was reference specfically pointed to people who go to church’s like Wright’s that emphasize black liberation theology. There are plenty of black people who are actually OFFENDED by such theology.
Anne Onymous | Jun 11, 2008 | Reply
So, what do you make of that Hagee goon whose support McCain craved so?
How about Jerry Falwell? Pat Robertson? James Dobson? Hello? Anyone home?
If you have no problem with the GOP courting the more hateful Christian rightists (remember Falwell and Robertson blaming 9/11 on evil liberal feminist secularist atheist gays?) then you forfeit the right to complain about Rev. Wright.
ptg | Jun 13, 2008 | Reply
McCain never was a member of Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson or James Dobson’ churches. McCain didn’t sit in a pew every Sunday for 20 years and cheer any of these funamentalists, nor give them large donations, nor lend his name to support their churches. If you can’t see the difference, then you have no business telling me or anyone else that they “forfeit” any right to complain about Wright.
BTW Falwell didn’t blame 9/11 on homos, he blamed it on God.
Besides, Wright is anti-American in his hatred. None of the fundies you mentioned would preach “God damn America” as Wright did. Obama is a communist front and Rev Wright is a willing fellow traveler.
Tracy | Jun 13, 2008 | Reply
Ann, I’ve never liked Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell. In fact, I can’t think of ONE televangelist that I DO like.
That being said, how’d you end up throwing James Dobson of all people, into that camp??
But to address your question, there’s a big difference between people who support YOU, and people who YOU support.
Pat, Jerry et al are going for McCain because they have very conservative views and McCain is their closest chance of having someone who’s leaning slightly to the right, even though McCain isn’t NEARLY as conservative as they are. To THEM, McCain is the best hope between the two candidates– the lesser of two evils. Do you think they’d be pulling for McCain if Huckabee was still in the running?
HECK NO!
The candidates have NO CONTROL over who supports them and votes for them. They have TOTAL control over who THEY support.
People don’t really seem to care that Wright was supporting Obama. What bothers people is that OBAMA supported WRIGHT.
There’s a big difference.
ptg | Jun 14, 2008 | Reply
Thou hittest the nail squarely, Tracy. As for Jim Dobson, I remember him trying to save Ted Bundy’s soul as Ted was preparing to sit Florida’s electric chair.
angela | Jul 6, 2008 | Reply
I took my kids to go see Wall E tonight and they really enjoyed the previews as well as the flick itself.
They have taken themselves upstairs and keep singing that song, “they like to move-it move-it” — some other Disney Movie that is about to come out.
As for the subject at hand.. I still say that hatred from the pulpit is wrong. I don’t understand how a person could have somebody that is so hateful from the pulpit as a mentor for twenty-some-odd years.
I don’t get it and probably never will.. oh well.. that’s life.